Episode 9 - Knowing When it's Time to Pivot Out of Weddings | Abby Grace Photography

What happens when the wedding business you’ve built no longer fits the life you want? In this episode of Wedding Industry Mama, I sit down with photographer and educator Abby Springman to talk about her powerful journey from luxury wedding photography to brand photography — all while navigating adoption, a surprise pregnancy, and motherhood to three little boys.

Abby shares openly about:

• Knowing when it’s time to pivot out of the wedding industry
• Why motherhood reshaped her business priorities
• The mindset shifts from B2C (weddings) to B2B (brands)
• How to tell if you’re burned out… or if it’s simply time to move on
• The importance of lifestyle-first business planning

If you’ve ever wondered how to build a business that fits the life you actually want — or questioned whether it’s time to leave weddings behind — this conversation will inspire and encourage you.

🎧 Tune in now for insight, honesty, and wisdom from one of the most respected voices in the photography world, Abby Grace.

🔗 Follow @abbygracephoto on Instagram, visit www.abbygracephotography.com and listen to The Artisan CEO Podcast here: https://abbygracephotography.com/podcast

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Transcript

Meredith: [00:00:00] Welcome. I'm so excited to have you here. It's kind of funny because I feel like I know you a little bit, just because you are. Pretty much open on social media, but you know, who knows? No one really knows what's going on behind the scenes. But yeah, I, I legitimately teared up when I saw you were pregnant, so I was, I was like, see, I've been following along with you since 2015, so, oh my gosh.

Yeah. So it's been a while. Yeah, exactly. But that was when I went full time into my photography business. Yeah. And then I found you, I forget how, I mean, you know. The social media rabbit hole. Mm-hmm. At some point. But but yeah, no, I just remember following along with your adoption journey and everything, and then when I saw you were pregnant, I was like, 

Abby: oh my goodness.

Meredith: I 

Abby: posted that reel and then within like 45 seconds I started getting texts from friends who we hadn't told yet. And I mean, we told like. Anyone you'd wanna tell in person, we told them. But like, you know, like [00:01:00] industry people who you keep up with, like within 45 seconds started getting text messages from people being like, oh my gosh, congratulations.

And sometimes I, full disclosure, Matt will walk into my office and I'm sitting there just like crying on my computer screen and he is like, you're watching the announcement video again, aren't you? I'm like, I'm, it's still such good news. I'm so grateful. 

Meredith: Oh my gosh, that's so amazing. Oh yeah, I bet. Like I, I still tear up when I look at things of my kids too, so.

Yeah. I mean, of course. Yeah. And also, I feel like you have such a unique story because you have been a mom twice. Mm-hmm. Before. But you didn't have like the physical Yeah. Repercussions. I was like a first time mom and a third time mom at the same, right. 

Abby: It was 

Meredith: so weird. Right, right. And I tried to explain that to my husband.

I was like, you don't understand this girl. Like she had her first baby. And had two other baby, like not her first baby, but her, like her first like physical, biological baby. Yeah. At the same time, she already was a mom to two. Like [00:02:00] I said, there's such, he's like, I don't understand. It's just like having a baby.

I'm like, no, but like the first time you have a baby, you are not, nothing can prepare you for Yeah, the physical. Repercussions to your body after. Mm-hmm. And so like, I can't imagine going through that and having to take care of two toddlers. So yeah, it was, I commend you. 

Abby: The, the pregnancy side of things was definitely interesting because I was like, I'm learning how to be pregnant, while also keeping up with my two other kids.

And you like, you know, you just do it like you, you, yeah. You don't have any other choice. But it wasn't until we got. On the other side of it that I was like, oh, that was really hard. Yes. And like physical recovery. I mean like the, it was, it was two days after we'd gotten home from the hospital and like Matt and I always did bedtime routine together for our two older kids.

And so. I put Gide in our, you know, four day old down for bed. And then I like went in to sit on the floor in my other kids' room, and I'm sitting there [00:03:00] trying to read a bedtime story about ice cream, and I started sobbing in the middle of the story, Matt's like, what's wrong? I'm like, my whole body hurts so bad.

And he was like, go to bed. 

Meredith: It's humbling, like very, very humbling. Yes. Yes. I just, yeah. My first thought was, I mean, I breastfed, I did you breastfeed too, or? Well, I'm actually still nursing. Oh, okay. Yeah. I did it for 15 months for all three, but I, I, I remember the first one though. I pumped and fed for the first, like three months or so.

Yep. Yep. And it was because. When I tried to have her latch, I mean, I think she had a tongue tie or something, but I digress. I, I've, I had this moment of like, I just gave up the entire bottom half of my body giving birth is how I felt. Yeah. And now I'm giving up the top half of my body. Like, it was just, it was such a, like a shock trying to breastfeed at first.

So it wound up being fine. And I, I mean, I no longer feel that way, but yeah. So anyway. [00:04:00] Yeah, that's what I mean, like. You're in such pain and, and you probably didn't even, like, I don't know, you, you probably expected it, but I just, I can't imagine having two toddlers, 

Abby: I don't think, I don't think anything can prepare you for the level of like pain.

And especially like when you're like, not to get too graphic, but like when your milk comes in, you're like, why does everything hurt? Like everything hurts so badly. And my, I remember my mom had come over. And, um, Gideon was like probably three days, three or four days old, and I kept going up and down the stairs to get stuff and she was like, honey, what are you doing?

I was like, well, I gotta get stuff, you know, Matt, Matt's not here. I I gotta go get something from upstairs. And she's like, can you just like, stop doing that? And it just didn't occur to me that like, oh, you, you can, and you should slow down because there was no 

Meredith: other option. Right, right. Yeah. You, you didn't have a choice.

I remember I went on a walk the first. Like three days later. Yeah. Mistake. Yeah. Big, big mistake was not, yeah. You get like 

Abby: a block down and you're like, can someone come [00:05:00] pick me up? Yeah, 

Meredith: exactly. Yeah. Anyway, I didn't mean to get totally into like the birth side of things, but I just, I just wanted you to know right from the get go, I've just always been in like.

Once I heard you were pregnant, I was like, how is she gonna do this? And you don't even know me. Right. But I'm, I'm cheering you on in the background going, yay, Abby. Thanks. So, um, but yeah, so I just wanted to, let's start with where are you now? What does your business look like today and how does it different from your wedding photography days?

If you wanna kind of explain to us when you made the shift, 'cause I know, I think you were paper pregnant. While you were still a wedding photographer, right? Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. So 

Abby: I began like to, long story short, I began my wedding photography business my senior year of college. So 2010 went full-time in 2022.

My husband joined the business in 2015, which was a senior year that we started trying for kids. And, after four years of trying and waiting and shifting to go the adoption route, our son Felix [00:06:00] was born in 2019 when I was still shooting weddings. And that was like. I had already started feeling the sort of tingle of like, Hmm, I dunno if I wanna do this for forever.

And I didn't know necessarily what would come after that. 'cause no, there's no, like, nobody, nobody talks about like life after weddings. It's just like weddings. Until you're not a photographer or like you see people like make the shift from weddings to families that I was like, that's definitely not for me.

I don't wanna do that. And so I didn't really have a, an offer hip planned, but, I had started shooting brand sessions in 2016 by accident. My friend Natalie Frank was like, Hey, I'm. Getting ready for this huge rebrand. I'm stepping out of weddings. I need someone to help me put my best foot forward.

Will you come shoot brand photos for me? And I was like, I don't even think we called it brand photos. I think she was like, will you come shoot some for my website? And I was like, 

Meredith: sure. I feel like, the term brand photography is a little bit newer. It is definitely. Yeah. 

Abby: Yeah. So I shot Natalie's like bio photos is probably what we would've [00:07:00] called it.

Yeah. It was a whole day shoot. It was so fun. It was beautiful. It was different. And I was like, oh, I like how that felt. Anyway, back to weddings. Um, and the next summer I got an inquiry from a client, Karen Hall, who I actually just shot again for yesterday. I got an inquiry from her. She's like, Hey, Jasmine Star sent me your way.

And I was like, I'm sorry, come again. Like, what? Oh my gosh. Amazing. No, she had reached out to Jasmine Star to say like, I'm looking for someone to come to these brand photos, and Jasmine star's like, well, I'm not available, or I don't do that. She's like, but Abby Grace. I can do that for you. And I was like, how did she get by name?

It was Socra crazy. So I was like, alright. I mean, yeah, I guess I can do that again. So then I shot for Karen and then. I started talking about it a little bit more. And it was this like snowball that just started very, very small, the top of a gradual hill, and then the hill got steeper and the snowball got bigger and it just so like it, it just kind of started to pick up momentum on its own.

And I, I think that's one of the cues that like, hey, you're onto something [00:08:00] is other people start calling out a gift in you that you don't know to preach yourself. You're so good at it, it doesn't. It doesn't seem like a straight, that's just like, wait, everybody's not good at that. And I don't mean for that to sound like pompous or self-congratulatory.

It just took a lot of other people being like, Hey, I see you doing this thing, and like I kind of want a piece of that. Can you come do that for me? So then one booking turned into another and it just was like, oh, well, as we started thinking about moving away from weddings. It was almost like a fallback, like, well, if I'm an amount of weddings, like branding seems to be picking up, I can do that.

Like I am. I think I'm pretty good at that. Other people seem to think I'm pretty good at it too, and I really like it, so let's try leaning in that direction. And that was, so that was spring of 2019. And then Felix, our firstborn, we were matched with him and, his birth mom in June. He was born in August.

Then my first wedding back after Felix was born was, he was 13 days [00:09:00] old and leaving for that wedding, I was like, I don't wanna do this like this. I, I wanna be home with my baby. I, I know I'm not like inflicting any kind of permanent damage, but like, this is not the life I want. I don't wanna leave my kids every weekend to go document somebody else's milestones.

And so it's sort of like, have you ever learned a dry stick shift? Yes. So you know, the trick with stick is like you push the clutch all the way in and you pull your foot all the way off the gas, you shift the gear. And then there's this gradual, almost like seesaw, where you Yeah, start to release the clutch as you're pushing in the accelerator.

And at some point you feel the accelerate, you feel the gear catch, and then you can totally release the clutch and and gas the accelerator. Yeah. That this was the like, okay, let's hit the gas moment. So like we had already started like pushing the accelerator down on branding and starting to release the clutch.

And then when Felix was born, it was like, alright, this thing is caught. Let's go. Um, and so we leaned even more intentionally into it. We had already like put a page on our website. I was talking about [00:10:00] branding more intentionally, but we were like, this, this is no longer just like eventually we'd like to be done with weddings.

It's let's make like a five-year plan for this because this is not sustainable long term. And then COVID hit and all the weddings started canceling or postponing and weirdly branding picked up. And so like fortunately, we were placed in a really prime position of having already marketed this. So it didn't seem like a desperate cash grab.

It was just like, well, business owners for some reason have money to spend, I guess with stimulus checks and they're. Like they've got all this time and they're spending all this time looking at their website and they're like, something's gotta change. So business owners are leaning more into brand photography at the same time where I was hoping to lean out of weddings.

So it just is a really beautiful combination of timing. And it still took us about three years to, to, to totally draw down on weddings. I shot my, I stopped booking weddings I think in early 2021 was I took my last contract. Um, and [00:11:00] then my last wedding was shot in October, 2022, and we haven't looked back and I'm so grateful.

But that's how that all shaped up from a timing perspective. 

Meredith: Yeah. So did your weddings then from 2020 rescheduled to 2021? We had. So, and you were kind of like, oh man, now that's definitely extended. 

Abby: Yeah, we had , several, I'm trying to remember what we even did for contracts. There was some kind of.

Additional fee that was charged to push the date. And I can't remember what it was. We only had like maybe two weddings that just outright canceled. The rest of them postponed to 2021. We may have had one that postponed to 2022, I can't remember. But yeah, it was like a doozy of a year where I, we had one day in the office, it was like a Monday morning, and I opened up my inbox and we had three brides that were, one of them was just straight up canceling.

And so that means like no more retainer fee. And our wedding bookings at the time were like 10 to $15,000. So you're like, oh, that's just like seven and a half grand gone. It's never coming back. And um, then we [00:12:00] had two others that were pushing by a full year, and it was like. What are we gonna do? Actually, we don't need to panic.

Like we've already started leaning into this other thing. It's going okay. We just need to like push the accelerator in a little bit. 

Meredith: Yeah. Does your husband help you with brand photography too? Then? He, 

Abby: He helps run the business. Okay. So he is like my business manager. He is our integrator. He's our ops guy.

Like he does. Most everything but the art side of things. And so, like we also teach courses for photographers and uh, he's the one who like makes all of that happen. So I teach the content and then he's responsible for editing the videos, getting those into FG funnels. He's responsible for all of the emails funnels.

Like I write the stuff and then he makes it happen. He gets it to the people. So he also like, if we're local, he'll come and assist me for shoots. He's like such a strategist and such a like, puzzle piecer. He's so good at that. But the art side is, is is my zone of genius. 

Meredith: Yeah, no, that makes sense. That's a good, kind of combination, the yin and yang, so, [00:13:00] yes.

How about for childcare? How do you guys handle that? How did you handle it? During weddings? Yeah. So for wedding, 

Abby: Matt didn't come. No, Matt did. Matt used to be my assistant on set for weddings before Felix was born. And I was shooting film, so I had myself and then my second shooter, and then Matt was my film roller and my assistant, which was amazing.

And then once Felix was born, it was like, okay, we need somebody else to come and roll film and assist and pull bags and stuff like that. There were a couple instances where he came with me and we asked my parents to babysit, which was great. But then once we got into the like, okay, he's no longer napping twice a day, we really need more time to be able to work together.

Um, we decided this, and we've done this with all, with our two oldest and we will be doing the same thing with their youngest. We started them in Montessori school at 16 months, but that first 16 months for each of them, we would kind of white knuckle it until the four or five month mark, and then from then until Montessori school, we would bring in babysitting like twice [00:14:00] a week. So like Monday and Friday or Monday and Tuesday for our older two. And then our youngest, my dad actually watches Gideon twice a week. My parents live four blocks away from us, which is amazing. And so two mornings a week he comes, oh, that's amazing.

Picks up all three boys, takes the oldest two to school, and then keeps Gideon until 12 and brings him home. So, it's great at first and then you start to reach a point where you're like, ah, this isn't really working, but like, we're so close to Montessori school. We can hold on is G So Gideon's 16 

Meredith: months almost.

Abby: He is almost 13. Oh. He'll be 13 months tomorrow. And so he will start in October, which, which feels a long way away right now. But it's like we, we have, we make it work. Yeah. It's not optimal, but we love having our kids home. And so Matt is the one who's. On primary childcare duty, our gender roles at home, are like not super traditional.

I'm the one who puts in more hours at [00:15:00] work. He's the one who puts in more hours with the kids. He does pretty much all of our meals and like laundry and everything like that. So, he is the one who's with the kids. When I am working , and then if we have, if I have a gig where I need him to come and assist me , we'll, we'll call in childcare or ask my parent if they'll take him.

Um, which we recognize is, is not something that a lot of people can do, and we are so, so, so grateful for it. But like our whole deal with running a small business is we wanna run a business and enables a life that we love and, and this is the life that we love. And it's hard and it's complicated, but it's worth fighting for because it means that we have the opportunity to homeschool our kids if we want to or like.

When I run a race in February, we can all go down to Disney for the race. Like it doesn't, it's not just like a weekend job. Like we can take our family and it's flexible and so we're, it's hard, but it's worth fighting for, 

Meredith: right? Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that's probably the biggest issue that wedding business owners may have, is that they're feeling like , they got into weddings.[00:16:00] 

Because they wanted to have a life that they love that they could control. Now they have children. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's hard because you're realizing you don't wanna give up your entrepreneurship. Right. But, so that's why I started this podcast. 'cause I wanted to somewhat make people feel like, you know, you can do it, you can stay in the wedding industry, even with kids.

It is possible. Mm-hmm. And, you know, bring in the mothers to inspire that. But I also wanted to bring you on too. You know, shed light on maybe the, there for some people it is time to shift into something else, you know? Yeah, yeah. So I just , it's like you said, I don't think people plan that at a time. Enough.

And it, you're young, like, so how many of us started our, our 

Abby: businesses in our like twenties and we're like, I just love, love, I love weddings. I love photography. I'm gonna make a job out of it. And then you do. And it's a beautiful introduction to the world of entrepreneurship and, and art and running your own business and, and chasing your dreams.

And, and I think what people need to understand [00:17:00] is like if you ch, if your dream changes, that's not a failure. It d it doesn't mean you didn't do a good enough job at weddings. It's just a natural change. Sometimes, like some people run their, their wedding photography business. Until they retire. And that's wonderful and that's beautiful.

But if your desire for your life changes and you're feeling this pull that your business, you want your business to change along with it, that doesn't mean something went wrong. It might mean actually something went really right because you built up this business that you can now take that career capital that you've accrued and.

Deposit it somewhere else and make it go to work for you. Where else can we do that? In the world of, you know, white collar work where you leave a job at one company and like, yeah, you might be able to transfer some of that credibility to another company, but, but it, I just feel like we have, so we have such a narrow box of like, what's okay to do or like what comes next for wedding photographers.

Whatever you want comes next. It doesn't, doesn't have to be families. It doesn't have to be brandy, but it could be, and that doesn't [00:18:00] mean anything. Went off the rails. It's just, it takes an intentional, you don't, you, you don't end up in another industry on accident. You've gotta, if you decide to make that pivot, it's gotta be one that you do on purpose and with intention.

Meredith: Yeah, I think that's a big key piece here. So when you shifted, did you feel that your audience naturally followed you? Or how did you kind of bring them along so that it didn't, like you said, it felt intentional to do it. Yeah, that's a great question. So I have 

Abby: always been like a teacher. I, since I started teaching before, I probably should have started teaching when I started my blog in 2010.

20 10, 20 11. One of those two. I love that. Yeah. Uh, I was like, I'm gonna blog what I'm learning as I'm learning it, which on the one hand is great, but on the other hand it was like, oh, Abby, maybe you should hold back just a little bit. Do you ever look back at the old post? Because every once in a while I'll remember them and be like, Ooh, I wrote a blog post about that.

I probably shouldn't have. Oh man. But so I've, my audience has always [00:19:00] been a combination of other photographers and clients and so there was a concern, like I remember especially when we were into like, hey, the like gear hasn't quite caught yet that I felt this awkwardness where I felt like I was straddling the line of like, Hey brides, let's talk about your pain points.

And then the next day, totally switching tacks on social media and being like, Hey, business owners, let's talk about your pain points. And knowing that I was alienating,. A significant portion of my following because whatever I was posting had nothing to do with them. Mm-hmm. So it, that was uncomfortable at first.

But I think when we can make the conscious choice to separate those two things that we're not trying to talk to both parties at the same time, you will find more success. When you decide to pivot, if you decide to keep both, that's fine. You know, there are plenty of photographers who, who do weddings and families, and they do them both really well, and you just accept that when you post something for one group or the other, that it's not gonna get as much reaction, as maybe a piece [00:20:00] of content that is meant to span the gap.

But like. The, that separating and, and intentionally speaking to one reader or your target audience member for that particular service. Like you're either talking to brides or you're talking to brands. You're not trying to talk to boat. Like I remember this when we were. Retooling our website that it was like, try the, the homepage especially, you're like, Hey, brides and brand owners, do you ever feel like the white passes you buy too quickly or like maybe you don't have enough marketing material.

And it's like, no, those are too, to like, you're gonna lose both people. You're gonna be lukewarm and boring and you're gonna lose both. So like instead we separated out the services page and asked people to choose, are you a bride or are you a brand? And then that took them to the page that was. Speak more directly to what it is, how it is that we knew we could serve them.

I don't remember what 

Meredith: the original question was. Sorry. Yeah, no, I mean, I think that was great. I just, I, I was asking about when you did the pivot, bringing the the audience along with you, but it sounds like you figured out that you basically have to [00:21:00] separate the two. I do feel like you kind of, you know, took people with you very well, so thanks. Yeah. I, 

Abby: we tried, I didn't, what I didn't want was for people to feel like, whoa, where did that come from? Like, you know, you did it.

You've got like, you get like a, like a photographer or like an artist or someone that you follow on social media and everything's going along nicely and then all of a sudden they're like, I offer pet portraits. And you're like, whoa, where did that come from? And then you never hear about it again.

And like my assumption is always like, well, 'cause that didn't go over too well. Oh man. So we will ve I was like, before we step out and actually offer this service, it needs to be verified. We need to have other people that have affirmed that this is a good idea, that they will pay for it, and that I'm good at this.

So then when we do roll it out, that it is a proven product and I have a proven process. And so, you know, you get these people who are like total entrepreneurs, total artists at heart, and everything is like, well, let's see what happens. That is not my ethos as a [00:22:00] business owner. I'm like, let's see what happens after we've already put in some work to lay the groundwork and, if we're gonna do this thing, let's do it.

Well, but I am not a throw caution to the wind kind of person because your business people attribute. Consistency with stability. So if you're throwing out inconsistent content all the time, like, let's see what happens. Let's see what works. You're actually communicating instability, which makes you a less trustworthy business.

And so I was like, if we're gonna do this thing of adding this service, I have to do it in a manner that can communicates stability because I already have a trustworthy brand and I don't wanna take that away., So it was a very, very slow process. Did you feel like you were 

Meredith: hiding it though? Like. You know what I mean?

Like you were doing it, but you were hiding it somehow. The word got to Jasmine star though at some point. Yeah, so, well, 'cause 

Abby: Natalie was posting her material and tagging me in it, which is how Jasmine saw it. But I didn't feel like I was hiding it. I felt like, oh, this is cool work and I like it, but I'm not sure I wanna post it because I don't know that I want other inquiries for this.

Okay. [00:23:00] And so it was a strategic decision not to post it because I was like, again, if we're gonna put this out there, it's got to, it's got to be, because I envision this being part of our business for the long term. , So we generally, like I very, very measured in what goes into social media because if we're gonna put it out there, it needs to be able to stand the test of time alongside all my other brand assets as something that belongs.

Which is why I don't share the fact that I quilt on my social media because it doesn't fit, or I don't share much of my gardening because it doesn't really fit. But like running content, that is something that I've dabbled with including, and I've decided I would like for that to stay. I'm going to include that as like a long-term storyline for us. 

Meredith: Yes, to speak on a the other side of the spect, I mean, I'm kind of in the middle of this as well.

Not that I'm leaving weddings necessarily, but I'm also now in the 15,000 plus range. Mm-hmm. So, I have fewer weddings. I'm also doing other [00:24:00] things with that time that I now have, I, I know you kind of accidentally fell into it. Do you have any kind of insight for people to want to leave the wedding industry, but they don't, they don't know what to do next?

Yeah. Do you have any, any thoughts for people like that? Yeah, 

Abby: I mean, I would say, first of all, play to your strengths, like the things that if you've never, asked if, well, if you've never taken the Clifton Strength Finders test, I think it's called, just called Clifton Strengths. Now it's an amazing test, which will tell you like, here are the things that you're really good at as a human, not as a photographer, not as an artist, but just as a human.

And for me, when I took that test, it was super illuminating 'cause it was like, oh, my number one, my number one strength is communication. And, yeah, that makes sense. And what am I doing as a brand photographer? But translating, hard to put words to. Concepts and making the visual. And so that strength finders test, or Clifton's strengths test is so helpful.

But then I also think like, you know, if you think you wanna stay in the world of photography, which that [00:25:00] is an easy way, if you've never have you read the book, um, so that they can't ignore you. I've heard of it and I think I've heard of it because of you. It's, it's amazing. And he's, he's the one who, who sort of brought up this idea of career capital that if you wanna change.

If you want to have the power to move from one job to another, that we have to develop these rare, invaluable skills that can be transferred from one niche or one industry to another. And photography, like if you're already a wedding photographer, that's a pretty easy batch of career capital to transfer to another type of photography.

So if you're thinking you wanna stay in the photography industry, but you're not sure what it is you wanna do, you just know you don't wanna do weddings anymore. I would say get out there and experiment. Try brand photography. Listen to, maybe a couple podcast episodes or YouTube episodes on like how to do a brand shoot well, and then go do it.

Well, don't just like. Do it halfway. Do it well as well as you can and see how you like it. See how that feels. If that doesn't feel good, try [00:26:00] try newborn photography. Try family photography. Like if it's, if it's photography that you wanna stick with, try other genres and see what feels good. But then I would also advocate for a lifestyle centric career plan of, like, for me, that's, that's why we started our business is to be able to.

Have a business that supports the life that we love. And so the reason for the change started with the discontent of the wedding industry in general, but accelerated because our life had changed and so our business needed to move with it. And so if you're not sure where you wanna go next, but you're like, I know whatever it is that I'm doing right now isn't working with my current lifestyle, well take a look at what kind of lifestyle is it that you do want and what kind of business could per could.

Provide for that and go there instead of just looking at the surface level of like, what do I wanna do? It's more like, how do I wanna live? And then change your business to suit that. 

Meredith: Yeah. My husband actually talks this all the time. He says, start with your perfect day. Mm-hmm. And then reverse from there.

Yes. So like [00:27:00] go through what your perfect day would be. Yes. And then. Then figure out what you wanna do. So I 

Abby: love that. 

Meredith: Yeah. I think it's a good way to start. So, that's great insight. Did you feel like you had to do some serious mindset shifts. I know we did talk about this a little bit, but when you were in the middle of becoming a mom too, you also had to shift your business mm-hmm.

Mindset as well. So can you walk through that a little bit? Was it. Was it difficult trying to put on all the hats ? 

Abby: Yeah. Well, so I, I, I, I feel like the most practical mindset shift that I had to make was the productivity mindset shift, because when I became a mom, it was no longer, I can just work whenever I want to.

Like, oh, let's do a dinner on the couch with our laptops. It was like. I have a, DHD was like diagnosed with it when I was seven, so it's been a lifelong thing that I'm learning even now, how to deal with, and when I became a mom, it became very apparent to me that I am horrible at multitasking. Oh gosh.

Um, just horrible at it. And so, and, and I [00:28:00] also have a very hard time context switching and so. I can't do the, like I'm in my office, I'm with the baby. I'm, I'm in my office. Oh, I hear the baby crying. Let me just pop upstairs for a few minutes and then I'm gonna go back downstairs. Like I have to have complete separation, like three foot fixed cinder block walls between, between, between different, uh, roles that I'm fulfilling.

So when I am in mom mode, I wanna be. Fully in mom mode and not feeling pulled in the other direction. And when I'm in work mode, I need to feel full permission to ignore whatever else is going on to put on my proverbial headphones and tune out the rest of the world because I know I have permission to be fully in work mode.

It's the wherever you are, be all there concept. That was I, that is essential for survival for me. So learning to communicate with my husband saying, I need to go edit this thing, or I have some deep work I really need to get done. I am not available from this time for the next two hours. I need you to just, [00:29:00] or I'm gonna leave the house for the next two hours because I've really gotta get this stuff done.

And Matt was always like, yep, do it. Whatever you need to do, go for it. But for me, I think. As moms, we struggle with this of like feeling like I should, like I lived in, should like, oh, I should be with my baby. I should be able to work more efficiently. I should be able to like just pop upstairs and say hi to my kiddo and take, you know, soothe them while he's fusing and then pop back, sit downstairs and like, I had to discard the word should and like, okay, what actually is, what are the real constraints?

Not the ideal situation that we would find ourselves in. If I were just more focused or I didn't have a DH, ADHD or whatever. Get rid of the shoulds, what is, and then go based on that and be more realistic about my estimations of what I could accomplish and what it would take for me to accomplish those things.

The other mindset shift, from a business perspective, moving from weddings into brandings, was this shift of learning to think because as a wedding photographer, your marketing business to consumer. As a brand photographer, you're a marketing business to business, and [00:30:00] so marketing business to consumer, the way that you think about pricing is totally different than how you think about pricing for, for work.

As a wedding photographer, a family photographer, whatever, somebody that serves the client, for personal consumption, those photographs terminate on the client. You produce the photographs you give them to the client, and then they do not go forth and make more money outside of. Print sales or albums or whatever they, that it really just, it ends on the client.

That's, that's it. 

Meredith: It's funny. We do call it an investment still. Sorry to to interrupt, but Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, you're right. 

Abby: You're right. You're like, it's an investment for your FA but it's an emotional investment. Emotional investment. Yeah. They are making an emotional decision. Business owners don't buy emotionally, they wanna know the numbers.

It is, it, it couldn't even feel. Kind of cold, but it's not. It's just practical. And so they're not making emotional decisions. They are making practical decisions, which means the way that you sell to them, is different. And it also means the way you price is different because the way these images.

[00:31:00] It's not hour for hour, like, oh, well with weddings I charge $750 an hour for coverage, so I should probably charge the same for branding. Actually, no, you should be charging more for branding because when you charge for branding, your clients then take that work and they make money with it. It's meant to go out and make, an exponential return on their actual investment.

It's not an emotional investment. It is a financial investment, and so that was a huge. Brain shift that I had to get over of like, well, I was only charging this much for wedding, so I can't charge that much. I'm like, more than that for branding. It's like, no, actually Abby, you should be charging more than that.

You should be making more per hour with branding because that work is gonna go on to make your clients' money. 

Meredith: Yeah, that's great. I mean, it's definitely a mindset shift for branding. I do the photography for my husband's branding. 'cause he's a small business owner too. And I do the architectural photography and it's the same thing.

It's been like, the architectural photography has definitely been a whole different pricing model and, you almost feel like you're learning a whole [00:32:00] new, I mean, you are, you're learning a whole new industry all over again. Mm-hmm. So it can be. It can be a little like, oh my gosh, now what? Like, yeah.

Abby: Yeah. 

Meredith: Um, yeah. Okay. So that's great. But also, so looking back, what do you wish you had known before making the transition to being a mom? Oh, gosh. That's a great question because you were, I mean, you probably had that mindset. Yeah. And ready to go for four years. Right?

Because you were trying for four years. 

Abby: So I think, I mean, I think when we first started trying the, the mindset was, oh, well this is the next life stage that I want to walk into, and I have decided that it is time, therefore I will get what I want. Like there was no concept at all. Like, this might be hard or this might take a while.

I remember the first, the time I got my period after we started trying for our baby, it was Mother's Day 2015. Aw. And I remember sobbing at church and I look back and I'm like, okay, I, that was a little dramatic. Like he tried for [00:33:00] one cycle. Yeah. 

Meredith: So Mother's 

Abby: Day, man. I know, I know. But, um, I, the longer we waited.

The more I realized, oh, this isn't just like a, this, first of all, this is not something that I am owed or entitled to. It's a very natural desire for me to want, and that's understandable, but like, I'm not, this is not, I'm not owed this. And so I think the longer we waited, the more that desire grew to be a mom, but also the deeper the appreciation for what a gift children are and what a joy and a privilege it is to be a mother.

By the time our kids came, there was just this overwhelming, like, I mean, any mom feels that way when your baby's placed in your arms and 

Meredith: Yeah. 

Abby: And, and this just, oh my gosh, I can't believe this child is mine. I, I am so grateful. Like, how am I so lucky? And I think a lot of our business shifted to prioritize that in the lead up to baby [00:34:00] to, to when Felix was born.

So it. I don't know that there's anything that there wasn't like a huge all of a sudden shift of like, oh, I used to believe this and now I believe this now that I have a baby. But it was more of like things that I already had felt stirring in my heart, came into sharper relief once my son was born.

There's this CS Lewis quote, I'm gonna botch it, but it's something like, children are not a disruption or a distraction for more important things. They are the most important thing. And becoming a mo, like I already knew that intellectually. With how long we waited and when Felix was finally born of like this, he is the thing that matters most here.

Like my business comes second. I will shift whatever needs to shift in order to support this child, support this lifestyle as a family. But it moved from just being an intellectual concept to feeling very urgent of I love my ch I I had, I had a hard time imagining I would love, oh, you know what?

I remember when we were. [00:35:00] We've been married for two, two and a half years. We weren't ready to have kids yet. It was like 2013 and a half. And I remember having a conversation with Matt about like, I'm worried that when we have kids, it's gonna, like, from the moment I find out I'm pregnant, it's gonna be like a ticking time bomb to nine months from then my, my business is gonna implode.

And Matt was like, well, on Earth makes you think that. I'm like, well, because there's no way I can do both. And he's like, well, if somebody's got a, if somebody ends up needing to stay home and your business is doing well, I'll do it. And it was this, oh no, kids are gonna come in and mess things up for me.

And then we started trying and had to wait, and I realized that like, I want this so badly that when I am. And when I am finally given the privilege of being a mother, I will move heaven and earth to be the mom that I want to be. And, and that's an attitude shift that we have. I've really tried to clinging to during, and sometimes it's a more active choice than others.

Like in the, in the hard moments of toddlerhood when your kids are just being tough. Yep. Of not [00:36:00] treating my children like they are. Taking me away from something better. And I, and I think it's a gut reaction sometimes, like your kids are whining or they're like, mom, I want a snack. And you're in the middle of something and you're like, you get frustrated with them.

But I have to stop myself and be like, wait a second. Yes, their behavior right now is sinful or frustrating or whatever, but like, why am I actually mad here? Am I mad because I'm, I wish that they were more God honoring in their behavior, or am I mad because they're taking me away from something else? I wanna be doing.

And in that moment, like maybe actually Abby, your outward frustration is a sign of inward sin. And like that you, that you need to reconcile that your kids are not pulling you away from something better. Your primary role in this moment right now is to shepherd their hearts well. And like I have to make that gut check all the time because it is so easy to just, you know, your cup gets bumped and if your cup is full of.

Selfishness and frustration. Yeah. Your kid bumps it, which your children will do because they're kids. That, that what comes out is not [00:37:00] grace. And so like how can I intentionally like, refill my cup every day with grace and patience and like as much as I can, joy. And that's not meant to, gaslight my own, yeah. Struggles in parenting, but that I want when I want. Always in every day for my children to know, in every interaction, even if I lose my cool. And it's me coming to them afterwards to apologize that I am so grateful to be your mom and I'm so grateful you're here and you are the most important thing, not my business.

My business is important because it helps me support my family. But you are always more important and I hope my kids never have to question that. 

Meredith: Yeah. You're making me tear up. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I mean. That It's so true. And I definitely, you know, I have the five, three and 1-year-old as well, so it's very Yes.

Oh, we're in the exact same boat. We're exact same boat. Yep. And it's, there are those moments quite frequently where you just kind of snap a little bit. Um, yeah. Or like lack sleep or a lot sleep. Yeah. Yeah. Or a lot. [00:38:00] Yep. And yeah, I've been very intentional about going and apologizing If I've done that or said something quickly that I regret immediately, I, I try my best to immediately.

As soon as I realize it, go back and, and make the apology to the children. And like, and then there are sometimes I just, you know, I'm looking at my phone and it's the same thing. I'm just, I'm looking at my phone, they're trying to tell me something, then they get frustrated because I'm looking at my phone.

Oh. But I'm also still trying to run the business. But you're right, like the, the kids are the most important thing. So that's really what you just have to remind yourself. 

Abby: That's where that separation for me becomes so crucial that like, if. Teddy, our, our 3-year-old is having a meltdown. Like what's more important right now, Abby, replying to those comments within 20 minutes of posting a reel or shepherding your son's heart.

Like are we, like something Matt and I have always repeated to each other is like, we wanna parent for the next 20 years, not the next 20 minutes. And so what does it look like in this? And, and, and you know, there are some times where you have to pair it for the next 20 minutes 'cause you're like, I have a meeting and I just need to get through it.

[00:39:00] Sure. Please put on bluey, like Yeah, but like the decisions about how we speak to our kids. Is that coming from a desire to pacify you or is that coming from a desire to parent you? Like, I want a parent, not just pacify. Sometimes we have to pacify, you know. Because we're small business owners and sometimes you like, you just are like, I just have to get through this one task.

But that like the long term, I guess it's just, I, I never wanna lose. Lose sight of that long-term goal of raising kids who like, know how fiercely desired and loved and wanted they are, but who also know that their parents made decisions for their good. That's something we say to our kids, like whenever we're doling out, like, Hey, I know you don't wanna take, we just literally said this to Teddy, like.

Before I got on this call, it was, Hey, I know you don't wanna go have nap time right now, but why do mama and dad have you take a nap? It's because we love you and we know your body needs rest. And why do we make the decisions that we do? It's for your good and for God's glory. And right now what is for your good?

It's for your body to rest. And like we don't always give a long [00:40:00] explanation like that before every decision, but I, I just want my kids to know that, you are not bothering me. You are not a bother, you are not a burden. And I know that sometimes my gut reaction when I am frustrated might be a little snippy, but then that decision to go back and apologize, to make sure my children know through my actions, and if not through my actions, then through my words that come with the apology that you like, what just happened?

Me snapping at you. That was me. That was mama's sin that wasn't you. Or sin and like, you know? 

Meredith: Yeah. Oh, that's really good. That's good to. To make clear to them along those same lines, but more on the logistical standpoint. I know you said that you were paper pregnant, but you found out in June you were getting your first son.

Yeah. Yes. So you had two months wait, June, July. Yeah. 

Abby: Two months. It was 10 weeks. It was 10 weeks from the time Felix's birth mom was due to, yeah, we found out when she was 30 weeks pregnant. 'cause that was when our, our adoption agency doesn't allow expectant parents to choose [00:41:00] a family until they're 30 weeks.

And so as soon as she hit 30 weeks. We had only been on the wait list for two weeks at that point. They had told us to expect like a 12 to 18 month wait, and then 13 days later we were chosen. 

Meredith: Oh my gosh. It was insane. It was insane. Yeah. But so then did you have a wedding, like when she was due and, and I mean, imagine you had to be there when.

You know, at the birth or just after, right? Yeah. So, so, 

Abby: so she was due August 21st and my first wedding after that wasn't until September 7th. Okay. Nana said, I still remember this then. If, if I had had a, a wedding like around her due date, I probably would've found somebody else to shoot it. And even so with like the way that Virginia law works and the period of revocation, which is a, a grace period that that birth parents have after they.

Choose adoption. They have a certain amount of time to change their mind. And so the grace period was maybe going to run right up against my September 7th wedding. And so I was like trying to get somebody else in there as like a placeholder, like, could you shoot this if I'm not able [00:42:00] to? And it was like a whole, oh my gosh.

It was so complicated. I know. And 

Meredith: but only two months before, I just can't even imagine. 'cause I, I at least had nine months heads up because I know Yeah. 

Abby: Teddy, um, we, Teddy story's even more bananas. Oh really? We were matched with an expectant mother in March of 2022. And we were told, it was like March 1st that we got the call and they said she's due March 20, 23rd.

And we were like, whoa, that's three weeks from now. Okay. And we changed around a bunch of things in our business and then we got a call on like March 15th and they were like, just kidding. There was a mistake. She's actually not due until May 5th. And we were like, what? Uh, so then we rearranged a bunch more things and ended up going down to Florida for the birth.

And she chose to parent, instead of adoption and, and we didn't like, so baby was born and then the next day, um, we got the call from the agency that she was no longer planning to place for adoption, which we always knew was a risk, but it was really, [00:43:00] that was really hard. That was like.

Mourning, mourning of death when nobody's died. It was, it was really weird. Oh yeah. So we, we drove home to Virginia with an empty car seat. It was like April 25th or so, and then two, two weeks, not even, two weeks later on Mother's Day. 2022, we got the call and they said, Hey we have a new case. He was born yesterday.

Can you be in West Palm Beach tomorrow? And we were like, whoa. Uh, yes, absolutely, of course. And so we dropped everything, booked flights went down the next day, 28 hours later from the time we got the call to the time he was in our arms, he was our son. It was insane. Shortest, shortest sink peek shape period ever.

But you already 

Meredith: had all the things, so that's good. We did, I mean, we 

Abby: hadn't even unpacked our bags from the first trip to Florida. 'cause I was too sad. I was like, I'm just gonna leave them in the packing cubes in the nursery. And then we were like, oh, actually that's great because we can just throw them in the suitcase again.

Yeah. It's a, do you feel like it was still meant to be just like a hundred percent? Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. We, there is like a part of me that still [00:44:00] like, thinks about that other baby and it was like by the grace of the Lord that we didn't know gender. We didn't have a name picked out. We never even found out gender after baby was born.

Um, and I'm like, that was, that was a grace and a kindness because I couldn't attach myself to a particular idea of a person that I had. It was just this baby that was growing in this expectant mother's womb and like that we hooked to be parents of. And so it was a little, I felt like it was a little easier to release.

And then when we got the call about Teddy, it was like, oh my gosh, it was. It was, yeah. So meant to be 

Meredith: and then, and then you wound up being pregnant. So yeah. What? It was just a complete shock. Just complete absolute shock. 

Abby: I mean, I took the pregnancy test, fully expecting it to be negative. It was just, I was taking it to close a loop.

Like if I'd had any thought that it might be positive, I would've taken a video on like, and I just it positive so fast, and I just sat there like staring at like, there's no. This does not compute like 4 0 4 error. There's [00:45:00] no, what? What are you talking like, I didn't even tell Matt. I called one of our dear friends, who's the pediatrician, she lives down the street from us and I was like, Hey, so this thing just happened, but it's probably, it's probably inaccurate, right?

Like the test expired last month, so it was probably a dead, that's, that's why it popped positive. And she was like, well, if you're concerned about the validity of the test, why don't you take another one? And I was like, okay, yeah, that's probably a good idea. So I took another one expecting that one to be negative and that one popped positive so fast.

And I was just like, I have to tell Matt right now, there was no time for like a, like a cute Yeah, cute. Like reveal or like setting anything up. I was just like, if I have to keep this in for five more seconds, I'm gonna vomit. Like I have to go tell him. Oh my gosh, that's so 

Meredith: great. So then, I mean, were you expecting to have three or.

Well, like you're expecting to 

Abby: adopt a third or, we weren't sure. We were, we were trying to figure out what we wanted to do next. We had, 'cause we had done fertility treatments prior to Felix being born. We had done pretty much everything you can do up until IVF we had met with [00:46:00] an IVF clinic. We didn't move forward with it.

We had never felt settled about it. Like, I don't think this is what the Lord has planned for us next, but we're not sure what he does and like, why don't we feel settled about this? Why have the funds not materialized for this? 'cause it's, we live in a state where it doesn't cover any. Any fertility treatments, everything was out of pocket.

Oh geez. And so, like what we had in investigated IVF and then decided to go the adoption route to never made a final call on it. So then after Teddy was born, I was like, I, we, we both wanted three, we just weren't sure how we were gonna get there. And we were like, well we, we could pursue further fertility treatments.

We don't know how we feel about that. Just dunno if that's what is for us next. But the adoption process is. So invasive. I mean, it is so emotional as, as physically invasive as IVF would be. That's how invasive. Emotionally, the adoption process is, and it's exhausting. And it, it takes a long time. And the burnout for Matt and I too from the fall through was [00:47:00] really hard.

And there was that, just that whiplash from You've been matched to Oh, actually baby's coming a month and a half later than you thought. Okay. Come down to Florida. Oh, just kidding. You're not gonna be parents. Oh, just kidding. Two weeks later you are gonna be parents. We were just exhausted and there was no real time to catch up.

Yeah, 

Meredith: with 

Abby: the whiplash. And so when we started talking about baby number three, we were just like, we don't know, we don't feel any kind of clarity about what that's supposed to look like. Then we, now, I know why, because we, we weren't supposed to go either of those routes. It was funny, I was like, October 16th, I was in my Bible study girls, and I was like, oh yeah, we're, we were talking about long awaited prayer and what do you do with that?

What's the point of like continuing to pray for something if that hasn't happened yet and. I was like, well, for example, pregnancy. I stopped praying for that a long time ago. I've just accepted that door is closing. If that door is closed, that's not what the Lord has for me. And that's okay. And I feel like if I continue praying for that, I'm keeping the door open when it's, it's really just better for it to close.

And then God was like, hold my beer, because a week later I got my first positive test in my life and I was, it just was [00:48:00] so ridiculously ironic because at our next Bible study meeting that night, I was like. Remember how I said this thing last week? Just kidding. This thing happened this morning. 

Meredith: Oh my gosh.

Wow. That like, gives you chills. Just like how, how does, it's such a crazy story. Yeah. And there's no, 

Abby: there's no rhyme or reason for it. When we were doing infertility treatments, there was no, nothing you could point to, to say, here's why you can't conceive. It was just like unexplained infertility. And so there's no scientific reason why after eight and a half years of trying.

This is the time that it worked. It just, it was just a miracle. And then I still can't get over it. 

Meredith: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I bet you think that every time you look at him too, just like, dude, just the, the best little miracle. That's amazing. Yes. Yeah. Um, so shifting gears a little bit, what principles from your wedding business did you carry over and what did you decide to let go of entirely? . 

Abby: I, there wasn't much, all of the like lighting [00:49:00] knowledge that you accrue and, how to talk to people and how to make them comfortable, all of that transferred yeah. A lot of the business practices transferred. I found that business owners were much more pragmatic. Like I, like I was saying, it's not an emotional investment that they're making. They do wanna see an ROI. And so talking, you know, with weddings, you don't like to talk about the money side of things.

Like, ooh, let's gross. But like with branding, you can, and it's not awkward. And it's not awkward when you pitch someone and you tell them your price. 'cause it's not. If they can't afford it, it's not an emotional rejection. They're not saying, oh, you and I just don't gel. You know, like with weddings, I felt like you'd show up on a sales call and you're like, oh, I really hope they like me because they're comparing me to five other photographers that are in a similar price range.

And it really comes down to personality fit. With brand photography, it's just like, nope, I'm really good at what I do. Here's my proven process and here's how I'm gonna get your results. And like, here's the cost of this. And they're like, okay, great. Or ah, dang, I don't have any, I don't have the money for that right now.

Like, because my business isn't in a place where I can afford that right now. But I really hope that I can work with you soon. Or do you have any other offers that I could take? It's not [00:50:00] personal. Yeah. And it's great 'cause it allows you to leave a lot of that at the door. One of the things I did not bring with me.

Was client gifting, which I have loved not doing because I feel like with weddings, and maybe it's changed, but I feel like when I was doing gifting, it wasn't really like, oh, I found this thing and I thought of you, and I just thought how much delight you would have in receiving this product. It felt very performative.

I'm sending you a gift because this is what wedding photographers do. We send you the gift and hope that you post it on Instagram. Yeah. And so, it felt kind of like. Transactional, like this thing that was supposed to feel relational, had undercurrents of transaction transactionality to it.

And I never liked that. And so that was one of the conversations with our Brave Photography Academy students that, that have come up several times of like, what are you guys doing for client gifting? I'm like, honestly, nothing because you don't need to. 'cause your clients don't need to feel emotionally like, you know, with weddings, it's like, okay, when do you send the first gift right [00:51:00] after they've made this huge deposit?

Well, then you also send another gift right after they pay their final balance so that you can take kind of like ooh, money part out of it. But with branding, they're just, it's just a line item. That's great. It 

Meredith: takes a lot great of the, like, 

Abby: yuckiness feeling out of it. So that has been such a relief now to go to the post office this often.

Meredith: I know I give, I give our post office cookies because I go there so often with, yeah, with everything, with, well film still, but actually I've, I have gotten rid of gifting too, so I don't know, maybe it's shifted since you left, but yeah. But yeah, so I mean, I think part of that is interesting too because I feel like it's a love language situation and if your love language is not gifting, mine is not either.

My daughters bring it back to the kids. Is a gifter. She loves gifts. Yeah. So I'm like, how, you know, how they say every morning with kids you're supposed to like give them a little bit of their love language? Have you heard 

Abby: that? Oh no. No one's told me that. But 

Meredith: those kids, yeah. Like if you give them [00:52:00] their love language for like 10 to 15 minutes every morning, the whole day is supposed to be easier, so.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. So if you just realize what their love language is and then do it from there 

so what advice would you give for someone, uh, who's unsure if it's time to leave the wedding industry or how to know when it's time to pivot?

Abby: The first thing I would say would be to choose joy, because that is a choice. Um, we don't have to be left to the luck of the draw. Our joy is not dependent on our circumstance. That is something that we can actively choose even when we're in the middle of a situation that we don't love. So first, first and foremost, choose joy, but then also keep tabs on your heart posture as you're approaching each project.

If you notice that with me, I noticed like new inquiries, new wedding inquiries were like. This little momentary flash of yay, but then almost immediately replaced with, ugh. Now think of all the work that has to know, accompany that inquiry. Um, so if you find that there is this growing sense [00:53:00] of dread, or maybe you're dragging your feet, or maybe, dare I say it, let's say you cry on the way to work, cry on the way to weddings.

That might be a sign that it's time to shift, but I also think there's a lot of wisdom in giving that time to make sure that you're not making a rash decision due to something simpler, maybe like exhaustion or burnout. So my pivot out of the wedding industry, that came after two to three years of feeling less and less settled.

And at first I thought I was just bored. Then I thought I was burned out af like after year one, I was like, I'm not bored, I'm burned out. And then after an entire season off, then I finally realized that though I was once so in love with weddings, it was actually the industry itself that I didn't quite feel aligned with anymore.

And that's okay. It doesn't mean anything went wrong with the industry or with me, it just meant that. We were growing in different directions, and Matt and I are huge proponents of what author Cal Newport calls lifestyle centric career planning, which is this idea of choosing the lifestyle that you desire and then working [00:54:00] backwards from there to tailor your work to suit that need.

And as small business owners, we have even more freedom to do that than somebody who works in a white collar job or a nine to five. And so as it became more and more clear that weddings were no longer aligned with the life that we desired for our family, that's when we hit the gas on pivoting out and.

I will not lie. Like it's scary. It is weddings. They feel, um, they feel secure in a way, right? That large paycheck that's hard to turn down. But pivoting out doesn't have to mean starting over. You have so much career capital built up as a photographer that transferring that knowledge and that expertise and the social credit that you have that is not as impossible as you might think, and you don't have to start at the buy.

Tell this to my BPA students all the time. You don't have to start over in order to get started. You don't have to start at the bottom again. If you choose a different path, you can take much. If not all of the brand equity that you already [00:55:00] built up in weddings, you can take that and transfer that into whatever area you may pivot into.

And then the last thing I would say is don't go it alone. You need to find somebody who has gone before you, ask questions, and then finally find your courage. Because the lifestyle that you desire and the family that you're working to be more present with, they are worth it.

Meredith: Oh wow. That's such great insight. So.

Lastly, just before I ask everyone this, and I know you're not technically in the wedding industry anymore, but do you have any wedding industry moms or, or dads that you, um, wanted to shout out to that you feel like have really been crushing it in the wedding world and motherhood or fatherhood?,

Abby: So Kate Kramer, she is a Baltimore area photographer and her work has just been gorgeous.

Recently, she was one of my brand photography academy students. And she decided to stay in [00:56:00] weddings and she is just producing some seriously gorgeous stuff recently. And every time I see her, her work pop up in my feed, it's like more and more recognizable. Like one of those people where you're like, oh, that's Kate's stuff without any need to see their handle.

And so it's been really fun watching her business grow. 

Meredith: Oh, that's awesome. Well thank you for that. And then just lastly, how can people get in touch with you? Any offerings that you wanna tell us about as we wrap up? 

Abby: So, um, you guys can find me on Instagram at Abby Grace photo. I also have a podcast, it's called The Artisan CO podcast, where the art of photography meets the business of profit.

And I love, love that show. That's where you guys can get if, if you love podcasts, which you're listening to this one. So I assume that you are. It's a great place to learn more about brand photography and like the business of photography. But, um, yeah, we have all of our information about courses and material over at courses dot abbey grace photography.com.

Meredith: Awesome. Yay. And I can't recommend Abby enough 'cause I've been following you and I think you've been such a great educator and [00:57:00] inspiration for the photography industry. So, we appreciate you. Thanks for coming on. Thank you. So had someone fun chatting with you today .